Does Big Support Harm Small Bands?
CODES Pic : Ruth Medjber
Already boasting the impressive claim of opening for Maps, CODES were delighted at the weekend to hear they would support Tom “I carried drugs in my cheek pouches” Chaplin’s paino-ballad group Keane at the O2 in Dublin and Belfast’s Odyssey arena later this week. Great news for a determined band to know their efforts have been noticed but I was reluctant to share my friends’ joy at the news. I completely fail to see what links the bands’ music. Much as I love CODES - you can check out a recent interview or live photos here - with better perception, a better band could have been chosen to warm the crowd for the Sussex headliners. Isn’t that what bookings are all about?
Call me cynical or obtuse but it seems to me that only too often a band will be picked up by promoters who don’t recognise subtleties in styles of music and how to complement performances. This doesn’t only happen with large organisations linking cool local bands to visiting performers but of course on a smaller scale on the independent circuit. For example, it’s a mark of endeavour when unusual bands get gigs in different parts of the country, like Aoife Kelly’s industrial electronica Moth Complex, billed alongside the bolshy purveyors of indie rock Distractors in a regional venue at Christmas. I remembered looking at the listing thinking - how can unharmonious billings possibly help a band? Are you not just putting contrasting types of music lover in the same room and inviting them to diss your taste?
Sure it’s not the be-all and end-all of the music industry to take a support slot that’s not in complete synch with your working model…even the amazing Amusement Parks On Fire supported the Kaiser Chiefs without any harm. CODES will still be hard at work here in the months to come as is always the way when the year starts big…Ireland’s big Os in CODES’ case. They’ve been hard at it for the last few years, a new album’s on the way and they’ve carved a respectable niche amongst fans of ethereal alternative rock music…because their ethereal rock is much better than Keane’s.
I’m fair-to middling convinced it’s okay to lump Keane fans in with The Script’s market and so warming up this concert opens the field to a huge boom of interest, potentially giving CODES a foot in the door to see their new album do well amongst the album chart brigade and of course, that’s the driving aim when gearing up for a new release.
Now as the band have a whole new catalogue ready to go on the back of four good singles, we can take CODES out of the picture for a moment but looking back over the last few years I’ve gotta say, there does seem to be a trend towards bands resting on their laurels in light of support slots of international artists and neglecting to develop further with their own style because polishing and rehearsing the live set becomes the ultimate focus in order to win over large crowds. For some unknown reason it happens most regularly on the back of a promising EP. When they’ve exhausted their shelf-life, a fresher band comes along and they realise all the interested generated melts away because they’ve no new songs to maintain it. And what of the original fans who enjoyed the early offerings but become disillusioned as they realise fame matters more?
I’m so curious to know how musicians feel about these issues. I’d really like to know how billings work and if anyone interested is reading this, are you a promoter who likes to mix and match your line-up?
Where do large-scale concerts rate for you, is the publicity too valuable to pass up?
If someone approached asking your band to play a gig and the other bands involved are not stylistically suited, do you decline? Would you rather load the van and give the show a shot because a gig’s a gig and winning over strangers is the challenge of it all?
Just wonderin’ like…
no disrespect to the lads, but i think at this stage they’ve been going for such a long time now that a support like this can’t hurt too much
if anything sometimes these kinds of gigs spur artists on - i supported fight like apes loads of times and often what seemed like an odd partnership (laptop artist Vs full on band) always worked really, really well
you never know…
Got booked to support Maccabees for Bud Rising, There were complications they didn’t play and we ended up supporting David Kitt solo, i like Kittser but it just wasn’t a good fit for us or the people coming to see the gig, we were looking to poach some Maccabees fans!
Of course they should snap the opportunity! The o2?!!? even if it is Keane and their fans might possibly hate you but its one gig that will really bump the CV up.
Personally I don’t like Codes. I saw them performs a dreadful gig in Whelans with Le Galaxie last year and I saw them perform as [LOST] also.. Too muse-y and grating for me! Personal taste.
Fair play to them for plastering stickers all over Temple Bar though. Good branding!
I do think POD put very little thought into their supports. There was a time were Grand Pocket Orchestra supported everyone in there. As much as I like them it was 10 times too many and they were rarely suited to the headliner..
Their support to High Places was highly unsuitable. Thought Kill Krinkle Club would have gotten it (assuming POD know of them).. I don’t think promoters care! It’s a cheap option and small irish bands would play big support for free. I know that for sure!
Just heard Codes for the first time. They sound perfect for Keane.
I certainly wouldn’t think to book you with Flapes, Leigh, that really is an odd pairing!
Leon, did ya succeed in stealing some of Kitt’s audience? We know people place so much emphasis on first impressions,so it seems performing to the fans of a completely different musician would do more harm than good.
Brian - It wasn’t the Keane fans I thought might hate them, but rather their established base wondering why a good band like Codes would support a naff band like Keane!
Grand Pocket Orchestra did play loads last year. They did work hard on their music too, releasing two EPs. I wouldn’t have associated them with High Places or their fanbase either though, and agree it seems like a convenient choice for POD. It’s exactly those instances when other bands lose on opportunities to support, and when it’s all done well, everyone’s a winner. Is it really that simple? Maybe I should work for POD :p
Anthony - I think they sound perfect for Maps!
“Fair play to them for plastering stickers all over Temple Bar though. Good branding!”
they should watch out - them new littering laws might get them yet
“I certainly wouldn’t think to book you with Flapes, Leigh, that really is an odd pairing!”
the best gigs i ever played - nothing annoyed me more than playing electronica nights
the point is sometimes these odd slots can make a band step up a gear, because they’re out of their comfort zone and not preaching to the already converted
Yeah I getcha on the stepping up a notch to garner new fans…but when the music’s in distinct contrast, the potential fans might be hard to please, exampled in GPO with High Places or Disconnect4 and David Kitt…
I love the CODES promo. There’s one on my laptop and I can bring the kids walking around Temple Bar and they’ll play spot the sticker
I agree…
“the point is sometimes these odd slots can make a band step up a gear, because they’re out of their comfort zone and not preaching to the already converted.”
Sometimes it all gets too stayed and boring for a band to do the usual circuit, not stepping out of their comfort zone.
And what could be more of an all encompassing gear change than the o2?
Big venue, new challenges to a live sound, bands get to really tweak things, give it socks and not be TOO worried about winning over a crowd.
It is just another gig, but one where a band can have a good look at themselves and think, ‘Is this where we can, and should, be?’
Solid action CODES, I say!
I knew it was an exciting event in the CODES calendar regardless of who the headline act was, simply because it’s such a huge, new space. However they’ve already got the slot in the bag. It’d just be curious to know if they’d then think, “is this where we want to stay?” which as I mentioned, so many bands seem to answer with “yes!” and take every opportunity thereafter to nab the big supports.
How’d you feel on the promoters’ end, Cauls? Ever made a rash booking that didn’t complement the other artists involved?
I can answer that…
I was once left with a gig in the Hub in an emergency and in the rush I ended up with the following bill
Queen Kong (Industrial, Electro)
Nanobot (Indie, Rock)
Sticky Digit (Hard Rock, Metal)
Chicks (with Cara of Party Weirdo (Indie, RiotGrrl)
Fucking ace gig. It can work sometimes…
Your gig sounds deadly
I would be all for hammering different genres together on one bill,kinda like a live mixtape if you’ll pardon the clumsy terminology..
Our criteria is always a mixture of live bands and electronica,seeing as my band are a mix of the two…
So having Nouveau noise and adebisi shank on the same bill makes sense to us,makes it more fun for the audience and is a criss cross of genres which can lead to discovering new music that you may not have had before…
More power to Codes I say - the potential for greater exposure is there for them and they should pounce on it..
Hello???-”their ethereal rock is much better than Keane’s” ROFL Go get a life and think twice before writing crap next time.
Gav - I think SEBP are such a mix of sounds that you’d find compatible aspects in just about every genre…wouldn’t be surprised to hear some Tibetan monks chanting an intro on the next album.
But I’m not against unusual billings, just the awkward ones. The Appetite For Reconstruction remix launch was a really good example of different support acts that fall into compatible booking. RSAG is nothing like Nouveaunoise who are nothing like Vinny but when put together just so it does work.
Earl Grey - take it my blog’s not your cup of tea then.
Based on what I’ve heard, Keane fans should eat up Codes. Very much along the same lines.
Found out this morning Keane approached CODES personally and asked for them on the Irish leg. So Keane definitely agree with you Dave….
i think this is a great oppurtunity for Codes, regardless of whether they can win over the Keane fans or not…
there will be people there who will love them and thier music,..
i’m going to O2 to see them, i like Keane but going for Codes.
great for their CV indeed.. as someone mentioned…
wow… so i headed along with CODES to the Odyssey and i may be a little bit bias in my remarks but they blew me away!
The Belfast crowd were hard to crack, even during the Keane set they barely moved an inch, but CODES got the roars n cheers they deserved. After the gig there was even some folk, of all ages waiting around asking CODES for autographs and photos. These were new fans and old. And that’s what playing gigs is all about no? spreading your music to people with the objective of establishing a fanbase….then selling records and surviving as a full time musician making the tunes that you love.
Nay says:”why a good band like Codes would support a naff band like Keane! ”
surely that’s a matter of personal taste n opinion Nay, each to their own , yea, Keane may not be my cup of tea, but 6000 people thought otherwise on Friday night. And these folk may also love CODES too.
Leigh O’Gorman Says: “no disrespect to the lads, but i think at this stage they’ve been going for such a long time now that a support like this can’t hurt too much”
In fairness Leigh, CODES have only been together for under 2 years and have just finished recording their first album….so i think they’ve done incredibly well in such a short space of time.
fair play Nay, you’ve sparked another great debate! … one that’s been bugging me all week, but i’ve said my piece now.. and so i’m off to gear up for the o2 tonight!
and he hem, photo credit Nay?
I found this a pretty hard blog to understand, to be honest. I had to re-read a bit, but here’s my two cents: unsigned bands take gigs whenever they can (if they’re serious about their chances) and of course if it’s in the O2, as a poster above said, it’s even more appealing. Sod the other bands, it’s a chance to go backstage in the O2, drink beer, run up and down a private corridor and stand in front of thousands of people!
Also, this whole debate smacks of the Irish mentality that doing support slots or playing a big venue for once will ‘make’ a band - it won’t, especially on home soil. Codes are excellent though, and I have every faith they’ll do well - but they’re not about to break through just because they’ve done a pair of big shows with a visiting band. I’m certain they’re as aware of that as I am. They seem to be having a blast doing it, fair play.
Lemon : that’s really cool support for Codes right there. I take it you’re one of the long-time fans happy to see them reach the O2
Ruth : sounds like you had the craic! Would be mad for the support band to steal the show but sounds like the Belfast crowd liked what they heard…
and I’m a one in 6000 phenomena so you’ll forgive me
Pologies!
Philly : thanks for persevering through the thorny underbracket to share your thoughts. I just threw up a load of questions to hear people’s opinions on support slots and billings. It’s quite surprising that the response was positive, considering the wide spread of musicians, promoters, photographers, bloggers and straight-up music fans.
And I wanted to know, do bands take gigs wherever they can? It’s quite a sweeping generalisation to just assume musicians all crave attention and will take any gig, so perhaps I should ask?
As for making it… I actually made the point that support slots can’t be relied on as a marker of success. The other commenters’ response however certainly deems this particular billing a success though, and like you say, fair play.
ehhhh… Ruth
CODES have been knocking about for around 4/5 years, albeit with a different name. I ought to know - I had them play gigs for me enough times…
This is a really interesting discussion, having come across it via word of mouth.
The variety of reasons a support band may be asked/picked are numerous and have been mentioned here - label links, similar sound, costs, location.
The reasons to accept (or decline!) are just as numerous - wanting to impress the label/management/promoter, gain a fanbase, take a step up in carreer, earn some cash…..
I think its the combining of many of these that get bands on to support bills and why they may accept. For a band financially if nothing else each offer needs to be considered and i dont think bands just accept every one that comes along. Like most things in life i dont think you can put a hard and fast rule on it.
Most important as one of the posters put above once they have made a decision they should just go out and enjoy it!
I am impressed that even if no keane fans went away as CODES fans they are now in the minds of lables/promotors/management and even bloggers (!) for a short time. all publicity is good publicity and all that.
I would like to know if anyone was at either gig if they thought it was worth the supports time.
EoinK
PS interestingly the new 02 layout means a greater number of people can see the support (even if they dont want to) due to the location of the bars. This also cant be bad!
Yea Leigh, 2 of the members worked together before in LOST, your right there…. but they only make for 50 percent of the band.
Not really fair to say they’ve been around for years wen the actual band CODES are only together less than 2 years…
Most bands have had previous incarnations before finding a successful combination. cant expect them to rise to fame without a trace of experience… so to me, 2 years as CODES and a few years of LOST, is still an amazingly short time to get to their level.
and yea, “I ought to know” too.
gone a bit off point folks sorry, but just had to get that out.
[...] Read the debate about CODES and support bands! [...]
Thanks for reading Eoin…the layout is definitely an added bonus for those who stay outside until the main event!
I’ll leave this to you guys for today!
Codes are NOT an unsigned band…
Bands DO take high profile supports, which will see them play infront of a much wider audience then playing upstairs in whelans on a Thursday night infront of all their friends.
…and this ”why a good band like Codes would support a naff band like Keane! ”….are you serious?? What can you see in CODES that you cant see in Keane? All i can see in a band (Keane) sell millions of Albums and play in such venues as the O2. By no means am i a fan but in fairness someone much like their music.
CODES on the other hand are signed to an Irish label called Interior Records. They still havnt released a debut Album. Doing supports like this should be a must to raise the profile and their label should have them playing more of these kind of gigs. No matter what band they support playing to 6000+ people will benfit them. If 400 people come out of a gig as fans that more then they would get playing to 200 people in the button factory.
Yeah, I reckon supporting bigger bands is a great thing for smaller bands of a different genre. Their usual fans will still see them in Whelans and wherever but the band themselves get to play a massive mainstream gig, regardless of anyone giving a shit about them. Do they get paid much, actually? That would be a motivating factor too, like the way Nacho Libre was getting beaten in his Luchadore wrestling matches but still raking in the dosh, much to his initial confusion.
No…supports acts who are offered gigs by promtors get €100-200 from MCD not sure about Aikens, and as for smaller promotors im guessing noting
No…support acts who are offered gigs by promoters get €100-200 from MCD not sure about Aikens, and as for smaller promoters im guessing noting at all.
Its about exposure…noting else….
Anyone on this would understand if they were in a band.
Also…an unsigned act wouldnt get such a high profile support.
I don’t think whether or not a band is signed has that much to do with it…even though this post is categorised as unsigned bands its more to reflect the overall support acts scene and not CODES in particular.
What can I see in CODES that I don’t in Keane? I think they’re much more interesting. Their music twists more than Keane, there’s evidence of shoegazey influence and despite a strong vocal front the main focus of the band lies on the group, not one instrument as it seems with Keane (piano) or person (Chaplin).
And call me a finicky bastard but
“We might as well be strangers in another town/
We might as well be living in a another time”
isn’t really hard to beat in terms of lyrical quality. But I suppose that’s relative,
I definitely don’t think there’s much money to be made in playing supports, Adam…I know a three piece who were bowled over to get â?¬50 for their effort, which says a lot.
The overall consensus of this post seems to suggest that all support slots are good things, regardless of money or a different crowd.
Funny that loads of gig goers skip the openers and head in to the main act then…
I saw these guys at the O2 and i thought they were brilliant. I dont really see them as another Keane as some are suggesting. They have guitars and attitude and much more creation in their song structures then Keane. Am officially a fan and glad they played so from my perspective i might not have found them had they not done the gig.
Nicky